Materia: THE CONSENSUS THUS FAR: 1. What is Lifestream? This is pretty simple, and there's very little disagreement in this field. Spirit Energy is what living things are composed of. When someone dies, Spirit Energy returns to the planet as Lifestream and the same Lifestream energy eventually can regenerate into new Spirit Energy and therefore, a new living thing. [Source: First visit to Cosmo Canyon, Bugenhagen.] Physical properties of Lifestream: Warm (likely because of Geothermal energy), liquid state. Intense radiation. Basically, don't swim in the Lifestream for extended periods of time if you don't have to. Exposure to the Lifestream for seven days usually results in death. [Source: Doctor in Mideel about Cloud; also note that Cloud has been in the lifestream for seven days- Barret states that Tifa was in a coma for seven days after the North Crater Incident.] 2. What is Mako Energy? General consensus here too. Mako Energy is Lifestream forcefully ripped from the earth. It's an industrial term. Basically, it's pretty much the same thing as Lifestream (except it is more processed). 3. What is Materia? No disagreements. Materia is consensed Lifestream; either articially (by Mako reactions) or naturally (as we see in the numerous secret caves). It's a solid, it's about the size of a large marble, and it resembles glass in many ways. It has swirling colours inside that reflect what general type of 'knowledge' it is. [Source: Cloud's past, Nibelheim 'back yard', Aeris' Holy falling into the water sure seems like a bouncing glass bead and it looks like a marble.] 4. Why can you cast magic (or do funny things) when you equip Materia? No disagreements here either. Materia contains the knowledge of the Ancients. When one uses it in their weapon or armour, it forms a link with the person's inner power. That person can bend the powers to their will. The first four questions were pretty general, and were answered within the game. These next ones are where the discrepencies start. 5. What are Summons? Mixed answer, but there are two main camps. The summons are either: A) The Ancient's physical form, trapped within the crystal B) is that it's not the ANCIENT, but the Ancient's monsters (perhaps the Ancients could summon monsters as allies as well). Note that there is also one other opinion, that the monsters in Nibelheim are somehow related to the summons. I, personally, would disprove this theory since Mako takes thousands of years to condense into Materia, and the monsters weren't more than five or ten years old. A third opinion C), offered by Firedraco, states that the summoned monsters live in a separate realm, and that the Materia serves as a communication link that allows the monster to escape. He also adds that it is possible for a monster to leave the summon realm every ten years. This is similar to the view from Final Fantasy VI, with Rydia and the land of the summoned monsters. I am inclined to believe Theory A) more than the other ones, on the basis of Knights of the Round being Ancients that were trapped inside a materia crystal. One can also meld theory A) and B) together, stating that the Summons are either the Ancients themselves, or the monsters of the Ancients. 6. How do Summons Work? This does not vary a lot, if you assume that the Summoned Monsters do not exist physically outside of the materia. However, this is all opinion as well. A) When you put your energy into the materia, it focuses and the energy acquires a physical form (your summoned monster). This comes at the expense of the user's energy (MP). -This statement disproves theory C), which takes for granted that a Summoned Monster has a physical form even when it is not 'in use'. 7. Can you 'make' materia the way that YOU want? This varies. Answers go from 'yes' to 'no'. A) Yes, the Shinra can, as long as they can isolate the knowledge from the Lifestream (probably by use of Manufacturing Equipment). [Note: Most responses state that a Mako Reactor is required.] B) No, it is too difficult to isolate specific knowledge. C) Yes, the Mako Reactor process tends to condense materia automatically. -In all instances, the responses state that it is difficult to find specific knowledge in the Lifestream, but that there are many 'common spells' that are NOT AS DIFFICULT to isolate, example: Fire, Ice, Lightning, Restore. 8. How does Mako Energy work? There is UTTER disgreement here, more than the other categories. A) When Mako is condensed by a reactor, lots of energy is released. [In modern chemistry terms, we would state that this is Fusion. Atoms try to arrange themselves in the least energy required. Because bonded atoms have less energy than lone atoms, you will see bonded atoms much more often. Note that when atoms bond, there is usually a certain amount of energy released.] B) Mako Energy, when it is pulled from the planet, is so chaotic and destructive that it lets out energy at random; Reactors control where this energy leads. My observations and conclusions: I am more likely to believe Theory A), based on the Chemistry that I can attribute to it. Lifestream coming out of the ground is NOT necesarily wild and reactive (note Mideel Hot Springs, Ocean Floor cracks, although I do understand that these are natural occurences of Lifestream on the surface). I'm a math-and-science student so I'll type up some theories as to how Mako Energy and Mako Reactors work: 1) Why the ground gets all rotten- Lifestream and spirit energy are needed to keep the planet's life thriving. When the energy is sucked out at a rate that is faster than the planet can replenish it, the plant life begins to burn out. 2) Mako Reactors- Mako Reactors drill deep into the ground and they absorb lifestream. Lifestream is very warm, maybe it's because it constantly reacts, and it emits energy in the form of heat. One may also note that Lifestream emits vapour, which means that when it is under the earth, it is close to its boiling point. Perhaps the small amounts of Lifestream gas are gathered, and the gas is compressed into liquid (causing a release in heat). While some of this heat is recycled to re-boil the Mako, most of it is used to boil water to create steam. This steam is used to turn turbines that run electric generators. During the process of compression from gas to liquid... (But wait, it is cooler on the earth's surface, therefore, lifestream would have a tendency to solidify rather than evaporate.) 2) Mako Reactors- Perhaps Mako energy is combustable. When you burn it, you create heat and this heat is used to boil water to run turbines. The products of burning Mako could be similar to the burning of hydrocarbons... instead of water as a resultant, we would have Materia Crystals (perhaps this process divides Mako into its different colours) and emissions (which explain the black smoke). I guess that means if you drop a match in the Mideel Hot Springs, you'd have a huge natural disaster on your hands... 2) Mako Reactors- Maybe we can go on the idea that Mako is random and chaotic in nature... Damn, this is causing my head to hurt so I'm going to stop thinking about this for a while. If we get this done, though, we'll be the first people on the planet to figure out all the physical properties of Materia, Mako, and the Lifestream. We could PROBABLY write the 'god all guide to FF VII's world' too. Subject: Re: OOG: Materia Date: Wed, 18 Mar 98 01:06:42 (PST) From: "Scarlet Griffon" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" RE: OOG: Materia BY: kkwan a globalserve.net Iv've beaten the game twice, one compleatly, mastering every Materia, beating everyone, so I know a lot about FF7. Let's see how I do. } }The issue of "Son of Bahamut" has brought up a few concerns. }Mainly, how the HECK does materia work? } }I have typed up a little treatise about how materia works }in the past. This was my view on it, but now, I need some more input }from you guys. Try to answer the following questons, and support them }with quotations from the game (or from a recognized source). } }1. What is the Lifestream? The Life stream is the Spirit Energy of all living things that "perish" and is used to supply new living things with energy. Bugenhagen's basic idea, first visit to Cosmo Canyon. }2. What is Mako Energy? Mako energy is the same as spirit energy in the Lifestream. Bugenhagen's basic idea, first visit to Cosmo Canyon. }3. What is Materia? Cyrstalized Mako Energy. This is explained in multiple sources. }4. Why can you cast magic (or do funny things) when you equip } materia? Contained in Materia is the knowledge and power of the Ancients (Cetra) and when you have it, you can harness your energy to do magic or "funny things". Version of Sephiroth's lectures in flashback of Nibelheim in Kalm. }5. What are summons? Summons are Materia that call on magical creatures. I think they were created by somehow putting the "freaks" (humans mutated by exposure to Mako energy) from Nibelhiem Reactor into Materia. That's why thereisn't an unlimited amount like the others. Eileen (mom) thinks it is somehow related to Magicite Shards from FF3 (FFVI I think In Japanese). }6. *How do summons work?* Contained in summon materia is an energy form of an "Ancient" creature, that when you put your energy into it, lets it manifest a physical form. The more powerful the creature, the more power it takes to manifest. }7. Can you 'make' materia the way that YOU want? (example, can Shinra }make a Fire Materia at will? I think the reactors somehow take certain energy from the lifestream that has the energy to create that certain ability. }8. How does Mako Energy work? My mom's idea is that Mako energy after being pulled out of the life stream is so chaotic and destructive because of the way it's seperated from the Life Force of the planet. }Take a stab at these ones. Support them with quotes from the }game if you can. Answer what you can; don't simply bullshit all of }the answers. There's no definite right or wrong here. } }Tata! }-- }/-|rcana }Ask me about my FF VII RP Game, Tales of Midgar! }----- ----- --*-- ----- ----- }Arcana's Mind: Star Wars, FF VII, Araby Weyr } http://www.globalserve.net/~kkwan/index.html } Took me a bit to think of something good to put. Thank Eileen Stone for ideas in the backround. See how you like it. Scarlet Griffon! #4 of the Multiversal Dreams BBS ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: Possible clarifications... Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 15:44:40 (PST) From: "Eileen Stone" Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" RE: OOG: Lifestream, Materia and Mako so far BY: kkwan a globalserve.net }6. How do Summons Work? } }This does not vary a lot, if you assume that the Summoned Monsters }do not exist physically outside of the materia. However, this is all }opinion as well. } }A) When you put your energy into the materia, it focuses and the energy }acquires a physical form (your summoned monster). This comes at the }expense of the user's energy (MP). This is still a viable theory. }-This statement disproves theory C), which takes for granted that a }Summoned Monster has a physical form even when it is not 'in use'. Not necessarily, the energy could be spent in powering the gateway for the pre-existant creatures/monsters. Sorry, can't rule out that one yet. [In the end we will have to make some arbitrary decisisons on this one. Anyone thought of contacting some of the people in Japan who wrote this thing?] }7. Can you 'make' materia the way that YOU want? }This varies. Answers go from 'yes' to 'no'. } }A) Yes, the Shinra can, as long as they can isolate the knowledge from the }Lifestream (probably by use of Manufacturing Equipment). [Note: Most }responses state that a Mako Reactor is required.] } }B) No, it is too difficult to isolate specific knowledge. } }C) Yes, the Mako Reactor process tends to condense materia automatically. We understand that we don't want just anyone to create materia at will. Shinra is shown to need a huge complex, which automatically prices the procedure out of most peoples budgets. As for part c), I don't think they are formed automatically, but as an rough analogy, consider crude oil: You can make it into gasoline, kerosine, plastic, machine oil, etc. You use the same starting material, but what it turns out to be depends on the process you put it through. }-In all instances, the responses state that it is difficult to find specific }knowledge in the Lifestream, but that there are many 'common spells' that are }NOT AS DIFFICULT to isolate, example: Fire, Ice, Lightning, Restore. One story I read had someone making a "lust" materia. ;p But, yes, the most common natural features would be easiest to seperate. }8. How does Mako Energy work? } }There is UTTER disgreement here, more than the other categories. } }A) When Mako is condensed by a reactor, lots of energy is released. }[In modern chemistry terms, we would state that this is Fusion. Atoms try to }arrange themselves in the least energy required. Because bonded atoms have }less energy than lone atoms, you will see bonded atoms much more often. }Note that when atoms bond, there is usually a certain amount of energy }released.] [B) snipped. I didn't like it.] }My observations and conclusions: } }I am more likely to believe Theory A), based on the Chemistry that }I can attribute to it. Lifestream coming out of the ground is NOT necesarily }wild and reactive (note Mideel Hot Springs, Ocean Floor cracks, although }I do understand that these are natural occurences of Lifestream on the }surface). Where lifestream comes up through cracks of the ground, and allowed to cool and harden over centuries, you can find natural materia. Just like with the right conditions dinosaurs turn to oil and coal into diamonds. }I'm a math-and-science student so I'll type up some theories as to how }Mako Energy and Mako Reactors work: }2) Mako Reactors- }Mako Reactors drill deep into the ground and they absorb lifestream. }Lifestream is very warm, maybe it's because it constantly reacts, and it emits }energy in the form of heat. One may also note that Lifestream emits vapour, }which means that when it is under the earth, it is close to its boiling }point. }Perhaps the small amounts of Lifestream gas are gathered, and the }gas is compressed into liquid (causing a release in heat). While some of this }heat is recycled to re-boil the Mako, most of it is used to boil water to }create steam. This steam is used to turn turbines that run electric }generators. During the process of compression from gas to liquid... Yeah. That makes sense, and has many more implications: See below. }(But wait, it is cooler on the earth's surface, therefore, lifestream would }have a tendency to solidify rather than evaporate.) Correct, which explains the natural materia formed in caves. }2) Mako Reactors- }Perhaps Mako energy is combustable. When you burn it, you create }heat and this heat is used to boil water to run turbines. The products of }burning Mako could be similar to the burning of hydrocarbons... instead of }water as a resultant, we would have Materia Crystals (perhaps this process }divides Mako into its different colours) and emissions (which explain }the black smoke). I guess that means if you drop a match in the Mideel Hot }Springs, you'd have a huge natural disaster on your hands... If Lifestream is naturally hot, then like geothermal taps they create steam by piping the superheated gas they draw out of the ground through water tanks to boil it, and powering the turbines. This provides the energy of the reactor to provide electricity and process the materias. This releases the energy of the gases in both cases, and it condenses. Mako energy forms a semi-liquid gelled lifestream, and geothermal taps condense to water. The black smoke has nothing to do with the energy produced, but it's part of the processing of the congealed lifestream into materia. Heating to harden it, then treating them with toxic chemicals baths, and what not. }1) Why the ground gets all rotten- }Lifestream and spirit energy are needed to keep the planet's life }thriving. When the energy is sucked out at a rate that is faster than the }planet can replenish it, the plant life begins to burn out. It could also be damaged by the indiscriminate disposal of all the harsh chemicals used in the above process. We can also say that the more "free" the lifestream molecules are, the more dangerous they are. Solidified lifestream (materia) can be handled safely. Liquid lifestream is semi-corrosive and dangerous to be exposed to. Gaseous lifestream is VERY dangerous. Perhaps it can dissolve things? When a mako reactor pulls up the gas, if any of it leaks at all, that would tend to poison and dissolve the ground around the reactor, eventually destroying it's ability to support life, and the weight of the planet's crust. As baby Plucky would say: "Mideel go down the *HOLE*." }2) Mako Reactors- }Maybe we can go on the idea that Mako is random and chaotic in }nature... Nah. I like the gas to liquid to solid explaination. }Damn, this is causing my head to hurt so I'm going to stop thinking about this }for a while. Actually, I think we're close. Just keep going with it. }If we get this done, though, we'll be the first people on the planet to figure }out all the physical properties of Materia, Mako, and the Lifestream. We }could PROBABLY write the 'god all guide to FF VII's world' too. }-- }/-|rcana *<{ Eileen Stone }>* The Lady Healer! ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: More on Mako and Materia Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 20:01:58 (PST) From: kkwan a globalserve.net Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" More on Materia and Mako energy. Let me start with some ideas on Spirit Energy. When a creature dies, its spirit energy is dissipated into the Lifestream, and it separates into whatever it needs to in order to create a new living thing (much like we can separate salt water into salt and water). However, when a Cetra dies and returns to the planet, their Spirit Energy CANNOT be separated into various components; they must stay together as a whole. Since we hear Cetra talking, since we even see an image of Aeris in the Lifestream, we can say that the Spirit of a Cetra stays in one piece. WHEN the Cetra's spirit is frozen into materia, if it is solidified in its wholeness, then it becomes a summon. We keep all aspects of a Cetra's spirit; his physical form, his mentality, his abilities. They are, however, confined within the materia orb until its master (similar to a genie, let's say) uses its Willpower (MP) to summon him. In a previous example, I said that if we managed to capture Aeris in her entirety into a materia, she would be a Red Summon materia, and we would be able to 'summon' Aeris to do whatever (probably cast Great Gospel or something). If we apply this to all Summons, that means that not all the Ancients were human. If the Ancient is NOT captured in its entirety into materia, then we have 'separate' abilities... the magic aspect, the command aspect, the support aspect, and the independent aspect. The independent would likely depend on the Cetra's physical ability (if he were strong, or quick, or very fierce-tempered). The command materia depends on how well the Cetra DID things (how well they could jump, or write, or cast magic). The Magic materia takes the knowledge of magic and encases it. Support materia is basically everything else. Comments, questions? [On Summoned Monsters] > }-This statement disproves theory C), which takes for granted that a > }Summoned Monster has a physical form even when it is not 'in use'. > > Not necessarily, the energy could be spent in powering the gateway for > the pre-existant creatures/monsters. Sorry, can't rule out that one > yet. Do we assume that summons have a physical form? Many who have spoken about this say that it's the 'spirit' of the summon that is 'trapped' inside the Materia orb. It really all comes down to what we like better: dimensional portal or 'trapped in crystal'. > [In the end we will have to make some arbitrary decisisons on this > one. Anyone thought of contacting some of the people in Japan who > wrote this thing?] I thought about it, and I went off of the thought train that said: A) They don't know B) If they knew, they wouldn't reply anyway [On Making Materia] > We understand that we don't want just anyone to create materia at > will. Shinra is shown to need a huge complex, which automatically > prices the procedure out of most peoples budgets. > > As for part c), I don't think they are formed automatically, but as an > rough analogy, consider crude oil: You can make it into gasoline, > kerosine, plastic, machine oil, etc. You use the same starting > material, but what it turns out to be depends on the process you put > it through. Actually, crude oil is a huge mix-up of various hydrocarbons, and when you heat it (and sort it by freezing point) you can separate crude into its separate parts. But I understand what you mean. I was thinking more along the lines that, when you use Uranium-235 in a Fission Reactor, you always end up with the same product, lead and some other waste that I can't remember. > One story I read had someone making a "lust" materia. ;p > But, yes, the most common natural features would be easiest to seperate. If the Ancient had abilities to arouse, then yeah, it's possible (I read that story too actually :/ ). But it's a given fact that people can't create materia on the street, and it's a given fact that it's difficult to create customized materia. I will rule out the fact that Shinra can create a usable summon almost immediately. [On Mako Energy and reactions] > Where lifestream comes up through cracks of the ground, and allowed to > cool and harden over centuries, you can find natural materia. Just > like with the right conditions dinosaurs turn to oil and coal into > diamonds. These reactions happen because of intense heat and pressure, and usually, one must dig into the earth to find them. However, we can say that the Materia Caves in the game are rather deep... [Change of State theory for Mako Energy] > Correct, which explains the natural materia formed in caves. However, that means that there will be no heat given off when the Lifestream solidifies. IF Lifestream was a gas at room temperature, then the Change of State theory would work (like your fridge) but Lifestream, as seen in Mideel and the End Game, is obviously a liquid at room temperature. > If Lifestream is naturally hot, then like geothermal taps they create > steam by piping the superheated gas they draw out of the ground > through water tanks to boil it, and powering the turbines. This > provides the energy of the reactor to provide electricity and process > the materias. This releases the energy of the gases in both cases, > and it condenses. Mako energy forms a semi-liquid gelled lifestream, > and geothermal taps condense to water. > The black smoke has nothing to do with the energy produced, but it's > part of the processing of the congealed lifestream into materia. > Heating to harden it, then treating them with toxic chemicals baths, > and what not. Black smoke and other emmissions would have been a result of the 'Lifestream Combustion Theory'. Hydrocarbons release carbon dioxide and water when burned; I was thinking that Lifestream could be the same way. I am going to discard the 'Combustion Theory'. > It could also be damaged by the indiscriminate disposal of all the harsh > chemicals used in the above process. The question is, why would the chemicals be required, if all Shinra needs to do is to force warm liquid/gas around water tanks? > We can also say that the more "free" the lifestream molecules are, the > more dangerous they are. Solidified lifestream (materia) can be > handled safely. Liquid lifestream is semi-corrosive and dangerous to > be exposed to. I would say that Liquid Lifestream (such as what Cloud floats in) would be more radioactive than corrosive. > Gaseous lifestream is VERY dangerous. Perhaps it can dissolve things? > When a mako reactor pulls up the gas, if any of it leaks at all, that > would tend to poison and dissolve the ground around the reactor, > eventually destroying it's ability to su port life, and the weight of > the planet's crust. If we borrow most of the above elements... let me summarize this to see if I'm on the right track. Okay, there are some things that we have established through evidence (as good as we can get)... -Lifestream is in a liquid state when at room temperature. -The use of Mako as energy results in dark, black smoke of some sort. -Materia is relatively safe to handle (although we could probably make a case that materia, like cell phones, can cause brain tumours!) -Liquid Lifestream/Mako is dangerous; causing poisoning or death (as stated by the Doctor in Mideel). We see that Cloud's thinking degenerates when he is trapped in the Lifestream; perhaps it is radioactive. Okay, I'm going to tackle another possibility here. D) Atomic Fission of Mako Lifestream is likely a molecular crystal. Let us believe that, when something is added to a large pool of Mako, reactions can occur to make the Lifetsream thicker. This would involve the bonding of molecules within the lifestream (and this would therefore release energy). However, this is not the optimum way to use Mako. When this thicker, more radioactive version of Mako is bombarded by atomic particles, the molecules of Mako break apart. The large chain of Lifestream atoms breaks into four separate pieces: 1) Another atomic particle 2) A molecule with weak intermolecular bonds that tends to form a gas(perhaps carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. if we believe that Lifestream consists of carbon and oxygen; that would explain the dark emission) 3) A molecule with stronger intermolecular bonds that tends to solidify (this is the raw material for materia, I'll explain this more later) 4) The remainder of the reaction; likely solid waste. This splitting of molecules causes a break in the nuclear binding energy and therefore, the mass is converted into energy a la E = m(c^2). This intense energy can be used to boil water to turn turbines. Because there is another atomic particle, the reaction keeps repeating, effectively letting off a gaseous substance and leaving a useless solid, plus some materia. The materia that is formed in reactors is of poor quality and has usually has only generic knowledge (something comparable to writing or talking in today's time). Shinra doesn't need this much 'garbage' ("You find junky materia from junky reactors") and therefore, they usually leave it alone until they need to clean it. Occasionally, if the large, solid materia deposits are exposed to high heat and pressure (which is possible, given the high heat and the large mass of Mako that Shinra works with), they melt into one phase and,when they solidify , we get something like diamonds... the Huge Materia. Of course, like diamonds, Huge Materia is very rare. The materia that you find in nature is much nicer, more efficient, and contains much rarer knowledge than what you get from Mako Reactors; this is Lifestream in its fullest (NOT divided up into various components) that happens to solidify into materia over hundreds of years. This is your high-quality materia, such as summons and other 'beefed up' materia you find in the game. If you go by the idea that a person's spirit goes into the lifestream as one whole (that is, it's almost like an entire spirit entity that returns to the planet instead of the spirit 'separating' into fragments... [perhaps only the Ancients can keep their knowledge whole] ) then the 'Nuclear Fission Theory' of Mako, for our purposes, works. > }Damn, this is causing my head to hurt so I'm going to stop thinking about this > }for a while. > > Actually, I think we're close. Just keep going with it. Okay, my head STILL hurts and I spend like, an hour doing this. Geez, I gotta get out more. We're close... but we probably have lost everyone else too :> Tata! -- /-|rcana Ask me about my FF VII RP Game, Tales of Midgar! ----- ----- --*-- ----- ----- Arcana's Mind: Star Wars, FF VII, Araby Weyr http://www.globalserve.net/~kkwan/index.html ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: Re: More on Mako and Materia Date: Sat, 21 Mar 98 01:31:55 (PST) From: "Eileen Stone" Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" RE: More on Mako and Materia BY: kkwan a globalserve.net One more time!! }More on Materia and Mako energy. } }Let me start with some ideas on Spirit Energy. } }When a creature dies, its spirit energy is dissipated into the Lifestream, }and it separates into whatever it needs to in order to create a new living }thing (much like we can separate salt water into salt and water). However, }when a Cetra dies and returns to the planet, their Spirit Energy CANNOT be }separated into various components; they must stay together as a whole. Since }we hear Cetra talking, since we even see an image of Aeris in the Lifestream, }we can say that the Spirit of a Cetra stays in one piece. Sephiroth said the Mt. Nibel were humans od'd on Mako energy (beta class, anyone?). Scotty (my husband) just did the Icicle Inn thing again. In Iflana's house, the video tape machine had a recording of her that said the Cetra existed long ago, and some were still around. She said that Jenova was a DIFFERENT being from elsewhere who came to the planet and infected the Cetra with a virus and made them into monsters. Is there what the Summons are? Because not all summons are monsters. Ramuh is an old man that throws lighting, Shiva a younger woman that calls up Ice. The WEAPONS were designed to combat Jenova. }WHEN the Cetra's spirit is frozen into materia, if it is solidified in its }wholeness, then it becomes a summon. We keep all aspects of a Cetra's spirit; }his physical form, his mentality, his abilities. They are, however, confined }within the materia orb until its master (similar to a genie, let's say) uses }its Willpower (MP) to summon him. In a previous example, I said that if we }managed to capture Aeris in her entirety into a materia, she would be a Red }Summon materia, and we would be able to 'summon' Aeris to do whatever }(probably cast Great Gospel or something). If we apply this to all Summons, }that means that not all the Ancients were human. See above with the Jenova virus scenario. They were MADE into monsters. }If the Ancient is NOT captured in its entirety into materia, then we have }'separate' abilities... the magic aspect, the command aspect, the support }aspect, and the independent aspect. The independent would likely depend on }the Cetra's physical ability (if he were strong, or quick, or very }fierce-tempered). The command materia depends on how well the Cetra DID }things (how well they could jump, or write, or cast magic). The Magic materia }takes the knowledge of magic and encases it. Support materia is basically }everything else. } }Comments, questions? Works for me. It would be cool to have a Aeris materia. And a Sephiroth materia, too. Wouldn't that be soooooooooooo ironic, to harness his evil to a PC's will? "SUPER NOVA!" Runs, ducks and hides... "oh shit!" May just be me, but I really thing he looks cool. Long white hair, sea green eyes, black clothes. I'd pick him over Cloud, if he were halfway sane. But then I'll always pick the elfin looking fellow over the Aryan stud. ;> }[On Summoned Monsters] } }> }-This statement disproves theory C), which takes for granted that a }> }Summoned Monster has a physical form even when it is not 'in use'. }> }> Not necessarily, the energy could be spent in powering the gateway for }> the pre-existant creatures/monsters. Sorry, can't rule out that one }> yet. } }Do we assume that summons have a physical form? Many who }have spoken about this say that it's the 'spirit' of the summon }that is 'trapped' inside the Materia orb. } }It really all comes down to what we like better: dimensional }portal or 'trapped in crystal'. Yep. Like I say right below. }> [In the end we will have to make some arbitrary decisisons on this }> one. Anyone thought of contacting some of the people in Japan who }> wrote this thing?] } }I thought about it, and I went off of the thought train that }said: }A) They don't know }B) If they knew, they wouldn't reply anyway Shades of Shatner on Saturday Night Live? "It's just a video game, people!! Geeze, get a life, whydoncha!!!" [Laughs] }[On Making Materia] } }> We understand that we don't want just anyone to create materia at }> will. Shinra is shown to need a huge complex, which automatically }> prices the procedure out of most peoples budgets. }> }> As for part c), I don't think they are formed automatically, but as an }> rough analogy, consider crude oil: You can make it into gasoline, }> kerosine, plastic, machine oil, etc. You use the same starting }> material, but what it turns out to be depends on the process you put }> it through. } }Actually, crude oil is a huge mix-up of various hydrocarbons, }and when you heat it (and sort it by freezing point) you can separate }crude into its separate parts. But I understand what you mean. } }I was thinking more along the lines that, when you use }Uranium-235 in a Fission Reactor, you always end up with the same }product, lead and some other waste that I can't remember. } }> One story I read had someone making a "lust" materia. ;p }> But, yes, the most common natural features would be easiest to seperate. } }If the Ancient had abilities to arouse, then yeah, it's }possible (I read that story too actually :/ ). But it's a given }fact that people can't create materia on the street, and it's a }given fact that it's difficult to create customized materia. }I will rule out the fact that Shinra can create a usable }summon almost immediately. Oh, definately. The thrashing the mako energy gets going through the reactor absolutely precludes any possibility to keeping an entire Cetra intact to create a summon. }[On Mako Energy and reactions] } }> Where lifestream comes up through cracks of the ground, and allowed to }> cool and harden over centuries, you can find natural materia. Just }> like with the right conditions dinosaurs turn to oil and coal into }> diamonds. } }These reactions happen because of intense heat and pressure, }and usually, one must dig into the earth to find them. However, }we can say that the Materia Caves in the game are rather deep... } }[Change of State theory for Mako Energy] } }> Correct, which explains the natural materia formed in caves. } }However, that means that there will be no heat given off }when the Lifestream solidifies. IF Lifestream was a gas at room }temperature, then the Change of State theory would work (like }your fridge) but Lifestream, as seen in Mideel and the End Game, }is obviously a liquid at room temperature. I didn't say that lifestream is gaseous at room temperture. I said that at room temperature it's liquid, like water. In a gaseous state, it's at least hundreds of degrees Farenheit, maybe thousands, just like steam. Else why can you boil water with it? Those caves were hot when the gas escaped into them, then it cooled into liquid, and gradually cooled more to solid. }> If Lifestream is naturally hot, then like geothermal taps they create }> steam by piping the superheated gas they draw out of the ground }> through water tanks to boil it, and powering the turbines. This }> provides the energy of the reactor to provide electricity and process }> the materias. This releases the energy of the gases in both cases, }> and it condenses. Mako energy forms a semi-liquid gelled lifestream, }> and geothermal taps condense to water. } }> The black smoke has nothing to do with the energy produced, but it's }> part of the processing of the congealed lifestream into materia. }> Heating to harden it, then treating them with toxic chemicals baths, }> and what not. } }Black smoke and other emmissions would have been a result of the 'Lifestream }Combustion Theory'. Hydrocarbons release carbon dioxide and water when }burned; I was thinking that Lifestream could be the same way. }I am going to discard the 'Combustion Theory'. Doesn't seem to work for me. Wasteful. I think it's more like water. Which is very hard to destroy, but usually retained in some form: Vapour, steam, ice, etc. }> It could also be damaged by the indiscriminate disposal of all the harsh }> chemicals used in the above process. } }The question is, why would the chemicals be required, if all }Shinra needs to do is to force warm liquid/gas around water tanks? That's just for the power requirements. But they also make materia. Every materia you can buy in a store was made by Shinra. EVERY one. They know that materia exists, and one of their early scientists finds a way to make common types of materia. It works so well, they just duplicate the machinery without improving or refining it. (Eco-villains from Captain Planet come to mind.) They probably make more money doing that, than they do selling power. (You'll note that all the really powerful ones, and ALL the Summons are found naturally formed, and not in any stores.) BTW: The Black materia is the size of a softball. }> We can also say that the more "free" the lifestream molecules are, the }> more dangerous they are. Solidified lifestream (materia) can be }> handled safely. Liquid lifestream is semi-corrosive and dangerous to }> be exposed to. } }I would say that Liquid Lifestream (such as what Cloud floats in) would be }more radioactive than corrosive. Not as we know radiation, IMO. More like a bio-affecting energy. A lamarkian mutation effect that he was lucky to escape. (Lamakian = instant mutation like in comic books: Flash and Spiderman. And Beta Soldiers.) }> Gaseous lifestream is VERY dangerous. Perhaps it can dissolve things? > Whe } }If we borrow most of the above elements... let me summarize this to see if }I'm on the right track. } }Okay, there are some things that we have established through evidence (as good }as we can get)... } }-Lifestream is in a liquid state when at room temperature. Yes. }-The use of Mako as energy results in dark, black smoke of some sort. Or the processing of it to capture incomplete Cetra into regular materia does. }-Materia is relatively safe to handle (although we could probably make a case }that materia, like cell phones, can cause brain tumours!) Eventually. "I'm getting those headaches again, Doctor." "Just take another Remedy, and call me in the morning." }-Liquid Lifestream/Mako is dangerous; causing poisoning or death (as stated by }the Doctor in Mideel). We see that Cloud's thinking degenerates when he is }trapped in the Lifestream; perhaps it is radioactive. } }Okay, I'm going to tackle another possibility here. } }D) Atomic Fission of Mako } }Lifestream is likely a molecular crystal. Let us believe that, }when something is added to a large pool of Mako, reactions can occur to }make the Lifetsream thicker. This would involve the bonding of }molecules within the lifestream (and this would therefore release }energy). However, this is not the optimum way to use Mako. } }When this thicker, more radioactive version of Mako is bombarded }by atomic particles, the molecules of Mako break apart. The large chain }of Lifestream atoms breaks into four separate pieces: }1) Another atomic particle }2) A molecule with weak intermolecular bonds that tends to form a gas(perhaps }carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. if we believe that Lifestream consists }of carbon and oxygen; that would explain the dark emission) }3) A molecule with stronger intermolecular bonds that tends to solidify (this }is the raw material for materia, I'll explain this more later) }4) The remainder of the reaction; likely solid waste. } }This splitting of molecules causes a break in the nuclear binding energy and }therefore, the mass is converted into energy a la E = m(c^2). This intense }energy can be used to boil water to turn turbines. Because there is another }atomic particle, the reaction keeps repeating, effectively letting off a }gaseous substance and leaving }a useless solid, plus some materia. } }The materia that is formed in reactors is of poor quality and }has usually has only generic knowledge (something comparable to writing }or talking in today's time). Shinra doesn't need this much 'garbage' ("You }find junky materia from junky reactors") and therefore, they }usually leave it alone until they need to clean it. The huge materia can be reprocessed waste stuff. But I think that all store materia comes from Mako Reactors. The common stuff from the Gold Saucer, also. But the harder to get stuff, like in the battle squares, or the Chocobo racing may be natural materia. }Occasionally, if the large, solid materia deposits are exposed }to high heat and pressure (which is possible, given the high heat and }the large mass of Mako that Shinra works with), they melt into one }phase and,when they solidify , we get something like diamonds... the }Huge Materia. Of course, like diamonds, Huge Materia is very rare. } }The materia that you find in nature is much nicer, more }efficient, and contains much rarer knowledge than what you get from }Mako Reactors; this is Lifestream in its fullest (NOT divided up into }various components) that happens to solidify into materia over hundreds }of years. This is your high-quality materia, such as summons and other }'beefed up' materia you find in the game. Abso-Fraggin-Lutely. }If you go by the idea that a person's spirit goes into the lifestream as one }whole (that is, it's almost like an entire spirit entity that returns to the }planet instead of the spirit 'separating' into fragments... [perhaps only the }Ancients can keep their knowledge whole] ) then the 'Nuclear Fission Theory' }of Mako, for our purposes, works. } }> }Damn, this is causing my head to hurt so I'm going to stop thinking about t }> }for a while. }> }> Actually, I think we're close. Just keep going with it. } }Okay, my head STILL hurts and I spend like, an hour doing this. }Geez, I gotta get out more. We're close... but we probably have lost everyone }else too :> } }Tata! }-- }/-|rcana This is kinda fun. Eileen Stone, #2 The MultiVersal Dreams BBS, kmcclure a goldrush.com ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: Even more on Materia, etc. Date: Sat, 21 Mar 98 13:13:00 (PST) From: kkwan a globalserve.net Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" [On Summons] > Sephiroth said the Mt. Nibel were humans od'd on Mako energy (beta class, > anyone?). Scotty (my husband) just did the Icicle Inn thing again. In > Iflana's house, the video tape machine had a recording of her that said > the Cetra existed long ago, and some were still around. She said that > Jenova was a DIFFERENT being from elsewhere who came to the planet and > infected the Cetra with a virus and made them into monsters. Is there > what the Summons are? Because not all summons are monsters. Ramuh is > an old man that throws lighting, Shiva a younger woman that calls up Ice. > The WEAPONS were designed to combat Jenova. Besides the one word that I can't understand (it has to be the verb, too) this is VERY GOOD. I like this a lot.... disfigured in body, but yet not in mind. Also, you forgot the classic example of human summons... the Knights of the Round. I could believe that King Arthur was an Ancient :> > Works for me. It would be cool to have a Aeris materia. And a Sephiroth > materia, too. Wouldn't that be soooooooooooo ironic, to harness his evil > to a PC's will? "SUPER NOVA!" Runs, ducks and hides... "oh shit!" May > just be me, but I really thing he looks cool. Long white hair, sea green > eyes, black clothes. I'd pick him over Cloud, if he were halfway sane. > But then I'll always pick the elfin looking fellow over the Aryan stud. Okay, so we have consensus on Summons, then.... let me try to summarize... Summons are the crystallized forms of Lifestream that capture a Cetra in his or her entirety. When you channel your willpower into it, you can convert energy into the Cetra's physical form. Many of the Cetra were infected by Jenova, however, and that turned them into monsters. This explains why some of the Summons are monsters, and are not human. Does that sound right? Anyone else have any comments on this? This basically means that Summons are forms of DEAD creatures. Now, the question is, could Summons have children, breathe, eat, do whatever? If we DID make an Aeris materia (I'm not sure if I told you already, but the night after Aeris died for the first time, I had a dream that the materia that fell into the water was a 'Blessing' materia, and that it allowed Aeris to talk to the party when she was part of the planet). But anyway, if we DID make an Aeris materia, would she be able to eat, breathe, have children, et cetera? [On Making materia] On making materia, we've concluded that it's impossible to make any sort of 'advanced materia' in a reactor. The thrashng that Mako gets makes it impossible to keep a Cetra intact. [On Mako Energy] We have two theories on this now. 1) A change of state theory 2) A nuclear fission theory > I didn't say that lifestream is gaseous at room temperture. I said > that at room temperature it's liquid, like water. In a gaseous state, > it's at least hundreds of degrees Farenheit, maybe thousands, just like > steam. Else why can you boil water with it? Those caves were hot when > the gas escaped into them, then it cooled into liquid, and gradually cooled > more to solid. But that would mean that Shinra needs to HEAT up the Lifestream, and use THAT to heat up water tanks. Now, why wouldn't Shinra directly heat up the water tanks? It would use less energy (since none of it is lost in the process of transporting Mako). And where would the initial energy used to heat the Lifestream come from? > Doesn't seem to work for me. Wasteful. I think it's more like water. > Which is very hard to destroy, but usually retained in some form: Vapour, > steam, ice, etc. I don't like the Combustion theory either. > That's just for the power requirements. But they also make materia. > Every materia you can buy in a store was made by Shinra. EVERY one. > They know that materia exists, and one of their early scientists finds > a way to make common types of materia. It works so well, they just > duplicate the machinery without improving or refining it. > > (Eco-villains from Captain Planet come to mind.) They probably make more > money doing that, than they do selling power. (You'll note that all the > really powerful ones, and ALL the Summons are found naturally formed, and > not in any stores.) True that Shinra makes a lot of money selling materia... therefore, they WILL treat Mako to create materia. But the question still remains, how does the energy from the Mako become released? > BTW: The Black materia is the size of a softball. I just watched that sequence yesterday and I made a note of it. > }I would say that Liquid Lifestream (such as what Cloud floats in) would be > }more radioactive than corrosive. > > Not as we know radiation, IMO. More like a bio-affecting energy. A > lamarkian mutation effect that he was lucky to escape. (Lamakian = instant > mutation like in comic books: Flash and Spiderman. And Beta Soldiers.) Yeah, that would be more proper than 'radiation' as we see it now. > }-The use of Mako as energy results in dark, black smoke of some sort. > > Or the processing of it to capture incomplete Cetra into regular materia > does. One, or the other. > }D) Atomic Fission of Mako > } > }Lifestream is likely a molecular crystal. Let us believe that, > }when something is added to a large pool of Mako, reactions can occur to > }make the Lifetsream thicker. This would involve the bonding of > }molecules within the lifestream (and this would therefore release > }energy). However, this is not the optimum way to use Mako. > } > }When this thicker, more radioactive version of Mako is bombarded > }by atomic particles, the molecules of Mako break apart. The large chain > }of Lifestream atoms breaks into four separate pieces: > }1) Another atomic particle > }2) A molecule with weak intermolecular bonds that tends to form a gas(perhaps > }carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. if we believe that Lifestream consists > }of carbon and oxygen; that would explain the dark emission) > }3) A molecule with stronger intermolecular bonds that tends to solidify (this > }is the raw material for materia, I'll explain this more later) > }4) The remainder of the reaction; likely solid waste. > } > }This splitting of molecules causes a break in the nuclear binding energy and > }therefore, the mass is converted into energy a la E = m(c^2). This intense > }energy can be used to boil water to turn turbines. Because there is another > }atomic particle, the reaction keeps repeating, effectively letting off a > }gaseous substance and leaving > }a useless solid, plus some materia. > } > }The materia that is formed in reactors is of poor quality and > }has usually has only generic knowledge (something comparable to writing > }or talking in today's time). Shinra doesn't need this much 'garbage' ("You > }find junky materia from junky reactors") and therefore, they > }usually leave it alone until they need to clean it. > > The huge materia can be reprocessed waste stuff. But I think that all > store materia comes from Mako Reactors. The common stuff from the Gold > Saucer, also. But the harder to get stuff, like in the battle squares, > or the Chocobo racing may be natural materia. Very true. Note that there are 'special kinds' of huge materia... SPECIFICALLY magic, or SPECIFICALLY summon. Also note that Huge Materia on its own is entirely useless; they need mastered materia to activate. I would think that the Huge Materia is basically a huge storage for knowledge. We 'feed' it materia, and it forms something in return with all our 'fed' knowledge. > This is kinda fun. We still haven't agreed on HOW Mako Power works. I'll list what we have agreed on. 1) How Ancients are diffused into the Lifestream, as compared to everyone else 2) Summons are the 'most complete' Cetra formed into materia 3) The Summoned Monsters are formed as a result of Jenova 4) No one can create Summons or advanced materia manually. 5) Something with Mako Reactors (or the treatment of Mako) can form simple materia. I'm thinking that we could go by: MAKO ENERGY works by the Nuclear Fission method. The waste byproducts are the 'materia' but this stuff directly from the reactor is useless. To form materia, Shinra must run the waste products of Mako Fission through processors. They treat it with some sort of chemical, which separates the materia into colour types. This often lets off a dangerous emission... something that's comparable to CO mixed with water and CO-2. This stuff is the black smoke you see above Detroi... I mean, Midgar. Shinra then runs these 'separate colors' further, through another processor, shaping the materia into cute little balls (and isolating specific bits of knowledge). This process usually lets off energy and this energy collected from the 'Materia shaping process' is usually enough to make the process of forming materia self-sufficient, therefore making it very profitable. The death of plant life around a Mako reactor results from the dumping of solid waste, the air pollution, and the fact that Lifestream is being SUCKED away and cannot nurse the soil. Any comments, questions, suggestions about this? -- /-|rcana Ask me about my FF VII RP Game, Tales of Midgar! ----- ----- --*-- ----- ----- Arcana's Mind: Star Wars, FF VII, Araby Weyr http://www.globalserve.net/~kkwan/index.html ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: Re: More on Mako and Materia Date: Sat, 21 Mar 98 14:58:49 (PST) From: quicksilver a bitsmart.com Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" Well, I decided to cut my way into this topic. It's one of the popular ones at the moment, along with the 'Wutai War' topic. So, I'll let you know my theories on Mako, Materia, and Lifestream, and boy, do I have some going. I spent about an hour arguing with my brother on my theories, refining them until, well, they sounded plausable. Here I go. I'll jump in where applicable. > > Let me start with some ideas on Spirit Energy. > > When a creature dies, its spirit energy is dissipated into the Lifestream, > and it separates into whatever it needs to in order to create a new living > thing (much like we can separate salt water into salt and water). However, > when a Cetra dies and returns to the planet, their Spirit Energy CANNOT be > separated into various components; they must stay together as a whole. Since > we hear Cetra talking, since we even see an image of Aeris in the Lifestream, > we can say that the Spirit of a Cetra stays in one piece. So far, I agree. Spirit Energy is what it is. > WHEN the Cetra's spirit is frozen into materia, if it is solidified in its > wholeness, then it becomes a summon. We keep all aspects of a Cetra's spirit; > his physical form, his mentality, his abilities. They are, however, confined > within the materia orb until its master (similar to a genie, let's say) uses > its Willpower (MP) to summon him. In a previous example, I said that if we > managed to capture Aeris in her entirety into a materia, she would be a Red > Summon materia, and we would be able to 'summon' Aeris to do whatever > (probably cast Great Gospel or something). If we apply this to all Summons, > that means that not all the Ancients were human. Those of you who read my last post on Materia will remember my theory on Summons. IF you don't remember, here it is. Summon Materia is just like normal Materia, in that it is a condensed crystal of Lifestream energy that contains the knowledge of the Ancients. This is not an actual creature itself, but rather the knowledge of how to shape one's willpower (MP) into such and such a form. Say, for example, I had and Ifreet Materia. I equip it, and instantly, I have a link to the knowledge held within the crystal. It shows me how to draw my willpower from my body, shape it with my mind, and direct it at my enemies. My party and I phaze out of reality, for safety's sake. Ifreet comes to life, attacking its targets with a blaze of Hellfire. When that's done, the willpower is spent, the Ifreet disappears, and my party phazes back into existence. Fancy show for an overglorified Fire spell (about Fire4) > If the Ancient is NOT captured in its entirety into materia, then we have > 'separate' abilities... the magic aspect, the command aspect, the support > aspect, and the independent aspect. The independent would likely depend on > the Cetra's physical ability (if he were strong, or quick, or very > fierce-tempered). The command materia depends on how well the Cetra DID > things (how well they could jump, or write, or cast magic). The Magic materia > takes the knowledge of magic and encases it. Support materia is basically > everything else. > > Comments, questions? > > [On Summoned Monsters] > > > }-This statement disproves theory C), which takes for granted that a > > }Summoned Monster has a physical form even when it is not 'in use'. > > > > Not necessarily, the energy could be spent in powering the gateway for > > the pre-existant creatures/monsters. Sorry, can't rule out that one > > yet. > > Do we assume that summons have a physical form? Many who > have spoken about this say that it's the 'spirit' of the summon > that is 'trapped' inside the Materia orb. Here's my theory. Summoned creatures do not exist. They are not 'spirits' nor are they anything 'trapped' inside the Materia. They are a representation of a person's will. They could be compared to clay figures, with a person's willpower being the clay, and the Materia the model for the figure. > It really all comes down to what we like better: dimensional > portal or 'trapped in crystal'. I like representation. That's my feeling. > > [In the end we will have to make some arbitrary decisisons on this > > one. Anyone thought of contacting some of the people in Japan who > > wrote this thing?] > > I thought about it, and I went off of the thought train that > said: > A) They don't know > B) If they knew, they wouldn't reply anyway Personally, I don't think they ever thought as hard about the subject as we are. They just thought it would look cool, and threw it in, without taking the time to explain it in detail. That's what our job is, now. > > [On Making Materia] > > > We understand that we don't want just anyone to create materia at > > will. Shinra is shown to need a huge complex, which automatically > > prices the procedure out of most peoples budgets. > > > > As for part c), I don't think they are formed automatically, but as an > > rough analogy, consider crude oil: You can make it into gasoline, > > kerosine, plastic, machine oil, etc. You use the same starting > > material, but what it turns out to be depends on the process you put > > it through. > > Actually, crude oil is a huge mix-up of various hydrocarbons, > and when you heat it (and sort it by freezing point) you can separate > crude into its separate parts. But I understand what you mean. > > I was thinking more along the lines that, when you use > Uranium-235 in a Fission Reactor, you always end up with the same > product, lead and some other waste that I can't remember. What kind of Fission Reactor you been using? Every time I check mine, I have weapons grade plutonium as a waste byproduct. :) > > One story I read had someone making a "lust" materia. ;p > > But, yes, the most common natural features would be easiest to seperate. Must've missed that post... :) > If the Ancient had abilities to arouse, then yeah, it's > possible (I read that story too actually :/ ). But it's a given > fact that people can't create materia on the street, and it's a > given fact that it's difficult to create customized materia. > I will rule out the fact that Shinra can create a usable > summon almost immediately. > > [On Mako Energy and reactions] > > > Where lifestream comes up through cracks of the ground, and allowed to > > cool and harden over centuries, you can find natural materia. Just > > like with the right conditions dinosaurs turn to oil and coal into > > diamonds. > > These reactions happen because of intense heat and pressure, > and usually, one must dig into the earth to find them. However, > we can say that the Materia Caves in the game are rather deep... > > [Change of State theory for Mako Energy] > > > Correct, which explains the natural materia formed in caves. > > However, that means that there will be no heat given off > when the Lifestream solidifies. IF Lifestream was a gas at room > temperature, then the Change of State theory would work (like > your fridge) but Lifestream, as seen in Mideel and the End Game, > is obviously a liquid at room temperature. > > > If Lifestream is naturally hot, then like geothermal taps they create > > steam by piping the superheated gas they draw out of the ground > > through water tanks to boil it, and powering the turbines. This > > provides the energy of the reactor to provide electricity and process > > the materias. This releases the energy of the gases in both cases, > > and it condenses. Mako energy forms a semi-liquid gelled lifestream, > > and geothermal taps condense to water. > > > The black smoke has nothing to do with the energy produced, but it's > > part of the processing of the congealed lifestream into materia. > > Heating to harden it, then treating them with toxic chemicals baths, > > and what not. > > Black smoke and other emmissions would have been a result of the 'Lifestream > Combustion Theory'. Hydrocarbons release carbon dioxide and water when > burned; I was thinking that Lifestream could be the same way. > I am going to discard the 'Combustion Theory'. Good choice. Burning Lifestream for energy? How primitive... > > It could also be damaged by the indiscriminate disposal of all the harsh > > chemicals used in the above process. > > The question is, why would the chemicals be required, if all > Shinra needs to do is to force warm liquid/gas around water tanks? > > > We can also say that the more "free" the lifestream molecules are, the > > more dangerous they are. Solidified lifestream (materia) can be > > handled safely. Liquid lifestream is semi-corrosive and dangerous to > > be exposed to. > > I would say that Liquid Lifestream (such as what Cloud floats in) would be > more radioactive than corrosive. Good. Now we're getting somewhere. Lifestream is radioactive. That tends to explain Mako poisoning, and why Mako is such an amazing source of power. After all, nuclear reactors put out more power than coal power plants, right? > > Gaseous lifestream is VERY dangerous. Perhaps it can dissolve things? > When a mako reactor pulls up the gas, if any of it leaks at all, that > would tend to poison and dissolve the ground around the reactor, > eventually destroying it's ability to upport life, and the weight of > the planet's crust. > > If we borrow most of the above elements... let me summarize this to see if > I'm on the right track. > > Okay, there are some things that we have established through evidence (as good > as we can get)... > > -Lifestream is in a liquid state when at room temperature. > -The use of Mako as energy results in dark, black smoke of some sort. > -Materia is relatively safe to handle (although we could probably make a case > that materia, like cell phones, can cause brain tumours!) Then Nanaki must have a really big one! (y'know, he uses hairclips, with materia slots, right next to his head... :) ) > -Liquid Lifestream/Mako is dangerous; causing poisoning or death (as stated by > the Doctor in Mideel). We see that Cloud's thinking degenerates when he is > trapped in the Lifestream; perhaps it is radioactive. > > Okay, I'm going to tackle another possibility here. > > D) Atomic Fission of Mako > > Lifestream is likely a molecular crystal. Let us believe that, > when something is added to a large pool of Mako, reactions can occur to > make the Lifetsream thicker. This would involve the bonding of > molecules within the lifestream (and this would therefore release > energy). However, this is not the optimum way to use Mako. > > When this thicker, more radioactive version of Mako is bombarded > by atomic particles, the molecules of Mako break apart. The large chain > of Lifestream atoms breaks into four separate pieces: > 1) Another atomic particle > 2) A molecule with weak intermolecular bonds that tends to form a gas(perhaps > carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. if we believe that Lifestream consists > of carbon and oxygen; that would explain the dark emission) > 3) A molecule with stronger intermolecular bonds that tends to solidify (this > is the raw material for materia, I'll explain this more later) > 4) The remainder of the reaction; likely solid waste. This is assuming that Lifestream is actually matter to begin with. We see it as a liquid, a solid, but it might not be... Part of my theory, for those who don't know it, states that Lifestream, being energy, is made up of energy. Perhaps it is a collection of positrons and electrons with stable orbits around a common null center, being held in place by personal gravity. These 'electro-atoms' have many of the same properties of regular atoms, except that they don't have protons or neutrons. They probably follow the same laws as regular matter, and they can exist in all the states of matter, being solid, liquid, or gas (and to the extreme, plasma). In the solid state, the atoms make the equivilent of ionic bonds with each other, forming a crystal shape. In liquid form, the atoms are kept from colliding by personal gravity fields, which repulse each other, and keep the atoms in a semi-stable formation. When the Lifestream is heated to near gas temperatures, the atoms are spread out further apart. Since the exterior gravitational forces acting on the atoms is reduced when this happens, the internal gravitational forces start to overcome one another. Some of the positrons collide with some of the electrons, annihilating each other. The remaining positrons and electrons are flung from their orbits by the release of energy. These 'trons', flung free from their orbits, crash through the Lifestream, striking other Lifestream atoms. The electrons of the atoms are attracted to the free positrons, while the positrons of the atoms are attracted to the free electrons, and they collide, annihilating one another. The leftover 'trons' are pushed out again, and the process continues. The energy released is amazingly high, and is only regulated by keeping the temperature at near boiling. Another thing is that the heat necessary to boil the Lifestream is make by some external source, or else it is self-sustaining. If it's from an external source, that could explain the black smoke. Or it might not be smoke, but rather steam, vented from the cooling systems. > This splitting of molecules causes a break in the nuclear binding energy and > therefore, the mass is converted into energy a la E = m(c^2). This intense > energy can be used to boil water to turn turbines. Because there is another > atomic particle, the reaction keeps repeating, effectively letting off a > gaseous substance and leaving > a useless solid, plus some materia. > > The materia that is formed in reactors is of poor quality and > has usually has only generic knowledge (something comparable to writing > or talking in today's time). Shinra doesn't need this much 'garbage' ("You > find junky materia from junky reactors") and therefore, they > usually leave it alone until they need to clean it. Game Point: Titan is _not_ a junky materia. Just had to say it. :) > Occasionally, if the large, solid materia deposits are exposed > to high heat and pressure (which is possible, given the high heat and > the large mass of Mako that Shinra works with), they melt into one > phase and,when they solidify , we get something like diamonds... the > Huge Materia. Of course, like diamonds, Huge Materia is very rare. Now, to try and explain Huge Materia, if Lifestream is just energy. Hmm... Huge Materia is the result of unreacted atoms which have bonded together in a large, stable crystal. Think of it as one Lifestream atom, made up of hundreds of small atoms that have combined to make the large one. This large atom has a much higher boiling point than normal Lifestream, and so solidifies into a large crysal. > The materia that you find in nature is much nicer, more > efficient, and contains much rarer knowledge than what you get from > Mako Reactors; this is Lifestream in its fullest (NOT divided up into > various components) that happens to solidify into materia over hundreds > of years. This is your high-quality materia, such as summons and other > 'beefed up' materia you find in the game. Once, I was watching this movie about an airplane that crashed. Now, trust me, I do have a point. The cops tried to say that it was pilot error, but the pilot's wife wouldn't believe it, so she hired a private investigator. He finds out that there was a fire on the plane, but they can't figure out what caused the fire. Finally, he finds out that someone was transporting chemicals on the plane, in the same spot that the fire was. But the chemical wasn't flammable at the concentration it was at, and could not have spontaneously combusted. The P.I. disproved that, and this is how: Take a small sample of the chemical. Now, slowly start to drip the same concentration chemical into the sample. As a new drop is added, the concentration goes up, higher and higher, until BLAM! it spontaneously combusts. Great movie, think it was a CBC TV movie. Anyways, on to my point. As Lifestream liquid drips into itself, over many years, the concentration of the mix goes up. At higher concentrations, the Lifestream has a lower boiling point, and therefore solidifies into Materia. Over many more years, these Materia are packed with knowledge, which explains why the Materia caves hold such powerful Materia. > If you go by the idea that a person's spirit goes into the lifestream as one > whole (that is, it's almost like an entire spirit entity that returns to the > planet instead of the spirit 'separating' into fragments... [perhaps only the > Ancients can keep their knowledge whole] ) then the 'Nuclear Fission Theory' > of Mako, for our purposes, works. I agree. But could it also undergo fusion? > > }Damn, this is causing my head to hurt so I'm going to stop thinking about this > > }for a while. > > > > Actually, I think we're close. Just keep going with it. > > Okay, my head STILL hurts and I spend like, an hour doing this. > Geez, I gotta get out more. We're close... but we probably have lost everyone > else too :> You think your head hurts? I've been doing this for at least 2 hours, and I can't even describe what I'm feeling. To quote a popular cartoon character: "Thinking sucks." (That was Butthead, if you didn't know. :) ) Enough thinking for me, it's 1:30 Central time, and I'm tired. Good night, everybody! Ask questions freely. I make no guarantees. Quicksilver ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: Quite a bit More on Mako and Materia Date: Sat, 21 Mar 98 17:20:46 (PST) From: kkwan a globalserve.net Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" [On Summoned Monsters] > I like representation. That's my feeling. Okay, your theory is logical as well. We'll have to see how it meshes with what we have so far (I'm not going to think too hard on it right now). > > I was thinking more along the lines that, when you use > > Uranium-235 in a Fission Reactor, you always end up with the same > > product, lead and some other waste that I can't remember. > > What kind of Fission Reactor you been using? Every time I check mine, > I have weapons grade plutonium as a waste byproduct. :) Okay, lead is the END RESULT of radiation emission... yeah I'm dumb :/ > This is assuming that Lifestream is actually matter to begin with. We > see it as a liquid, a solid, but it might not be... Okay, I'm not good with sub-atomic particles... but I'll see what I can offer. Okay, I suppose that if I asked you to define matter, and then apply it to the Lifestream, that wouls be sort of a pointless topic because this is the realm of science-fiction/fantasy.... > Part of my theory, for those who don't know it, states that Lifestream, > being energy, is made up of energy. Perhaps it is a collection of > positrons and electrons with stable orbits around a common null center, > being held in place by personal gravity. These 'electro-atoms' have > many of the same properties of regular atoms, except that they don't > have protons or neutrons. They probably follow the same laws as regular > matter, and they can exist in all the states of matter, being solid, > liquid, or gas (and to the extreme, plasma). In the solid state, the > atoms make the equivilent of ionic bonds with each other, forming a > crystal shape. In liquid form, the atoms are kept from colliding by > personal gravity fields, which repulse each other, and keep the atoms in > a semi-stable formation. > > When the Lifestream is heated to near gas temperatures, the atoms are > spread out further apart. Since the exterior gravitational forces > acting on the atoms is reduced when this happens, the internal > gravitational forces start to overcome one another. Some of the > positrons collide with some of the electrons, annihilating each other. > The remaining positrons and electrons are flung from their orbits by the > release of energy. These 'trons', flung free from their orbits, crash > through the Lifestream, striking other Lifestream atoms. The electrons > of the atoms are attracted to the free positrons, while the positrons of > the atoms are attracted to the free electrons, and they collide, > annihilating one another. The leftover 'trons' are pushed out again, > and the process continues. The energy released is amazingly high, and > is only regulated by keeping the temperature at near boiling. > > Another thing is that the heat necessary to boil the Lifestream is make > by some external source, or else it is self-sustaining. If it's from an > external source, that could explain the black smoke. Or it might not be > smoke, but rather steam, vented from the cooling systems. Question... what would STOP this reaction? If Shinra decided to build a super-deep reactor that went right into the earth's surface (thry tried with Junon) and launched a 'spark' below, would the whole world eventually blow up since it's reaction-reaction-reaction? > > This splitting of molecules causes a break in the nuclear binding energy and > > therefore, the mass is converted into energy a la E = m(c^2). This intense > > energy can be used to boil water to turn turbines. Because there is another > > atomic particle, the reaction keeps repeating, effectively letting off a > > gaseous substance and leaving > > a useless solid, plus some materia. > > > > The materia that is formed in reactors is of poor quality and > > has usually has only generic knowledge (something comparable to writing > > or talking in today's time). Shinra doesn't need this much 'garbage' ("You > > find junky materia from junky reactors") and therefore, they > > usually leave it alone until they need to clean it. > > Game Point: Titan is _not_ a junky materia. Just had to say it. :) Yeah... that was a quote from Scarlet in the game :> She doesn't know her good spells from her bad! > Huge Materia is the result of unreacted atoms which have bonded together > in a large, stable crystal. Think of it as one Lifestream atom, made up > of hundreds of small atoms that have combined to make the large one. > This large atom has a much higher boiling point than normal Lifestream, > and so solidifies into a large crysal. You're going to confuse me if you keep using the word 'atoms' when Lifestream is really just energy. > Anyways, on to my point. As Lifestream liquid drips into itself, over > many years, the concentration of the mix goes up. At higher > concentrations, the Lifestream has a lower boiling point, and therefore > solidifies into Materia. Over many more years, these Materia are packed > with knowledge, which explains why the Materia caves hold such powerful > Materia. Actually, I like this one. > I agree. But could it also undergo fusion? I would think so. I don't know that much about fusion so I didn't touch on the topic or else I probably would have had a 'Mako Fusion Theory' as well. Jairen, it appears that your theory is a 'variant' of some sort of Fission (except that it's energy letting off more energy). Me, I'm more comfortable with the idea that Lifestream/Mako is matter that carries energy, but I'll read your points over again. > > > }Damn, this is causing my head to hurt so I'm going to stop thinking about this > > > }for a while. > > > > > > Actually, I think we're close. Just keep going with it. > > > > Okay, my head STILL hurts and I spend like, an hour doing this. > > Geez, I gotta get out more. We're close... but we probably have lost everyone > > else too :> > You think your head hurts? I've been doing this for at least 2 hours, > and I can't even describe what I'm feeling. To quote a popular cartoon > character: "Thinking sucks." (That was Butthead, if you didn't know. :) > ) Enough thinking for me, it's 1:30 Central time, and I'm tired. Good > night, everybody! I thought too much about the history of FF VII too :) Tata! -- /-|rcana Ask me about my FF VII RP Game, Tales of Midgar! ----- ----- --*-- ----- ----- Arcana's Mind: Star Wars, FF VII, Araby Weyr http://www.globalserve.net/~kkwan/index.html ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===----- Subject: Re: Even more on Materia, etc. Date: Sun, 22 Mar 98 00:31:30 (PST) From: "Eileen Stone" Reply-To: "MIDOOG" To: "Multiple Recipients of Mailing List MIDOOG" RE: Even more on Materia, etc. BY: kkwan a globalserve.net RE: Even more on Materia, etc. BY: kkwan a globalserve.net }[On Summons] } }> Sephiroth said the Mt. Nibel were humans od'd on Mako energy (beta class, }> anyone?). Scotty (my husband) just did the Icicle Inn thing again. In }> Iflana's house, the video tape machine had a recording of her that said }> the Cetra existed long ago, and some were still around. She said that }> Jenova was a DIFFERENT being from elsewhere who came to the planet and }> infected the Cetra with a virus and made them into monsters. Is there }> what the Summons are? Because not all summons are monsters. Ramuh is }> an old man that throws lighting, Shiva a younger woman that calls up Ice. }> The WEAPONS were designed to combat Jenova. } }Besides the one word that I can't understand (it has to be the verb, too) }this is VERY GOOD. I like this a lot.... disfigured in body, but yet not in }mind. Od'd (Overdosed). Like the Jenova infected poor saps in Nibelheim. The result of that infection may be to turn one into a monster... a Summon. }Also, you forgot the classic example of human summons... the Knights of the }Round. I could believe that King Arthur was an Ancient :> } }> Works for me. It would be cool to have a Aeris materia. And a Sephiroth }> materia, too. Wouldn't that be soooooooooooo ironic, to harness his evil }> to a PC's will? "SUPER NOVA!" Runs, ducks and hides... "oh shit!" May }> just be me, but I really thing he looks cool. Long white hair, sea green }> eyes, black clothes. I'd pick him over Cloud, if he were halfway sane. }> But then I'll always pick the elfin looking fellow over the Aryan stud. } }Okay, so we have consensus on Summons, then.... let me try to summarize... } }Summons are the crystallized forms of Lifestream that capture a Cetra in his }or her entirety. When you channel your willpower into it, you can convert }energy into the Cetra's physical form. }Many of the Cetra were infected by Jenova, however, and that turned them }into monsters. This explains why some of the Summons are monsters, and are }not human. } }Does that sound right? Anyone else have any comments on this? Sounds Good. }This basically means that Summons are forms of DEAD creatures. Now, the }question is, could Summons have children, breathe, eat, do whatever? If we }DID make an Aeris materia (I'm not sure if I told you already, but the night }after Aeris died for the first time, I had a dream that the materia that fell }into the water was a 'Blessing' materia, and that it allowed Aeris to talk to }the party when she was part of the planet). But anyway, if we DID make an }Aeris materia, would she be able to eat, breathe, have children, et cetera? Having died, and their "echo" having been pulled whole from the Lifestream, I would say no. There could be a son of Bahamut, but he would be an Ancient too, not of recent creation. It would be neat to clone her, after her death. But you couldn't do it from the materia she would become... no cells. But if you got to the City of the Ancients, and managed to recover her body... it would be possible. Imagine Beta SOLDIERS with Aeris cells... They were able to get _cells_ of Jenova, because she wasn't in the Lifestream, but imprisoned in a geologic strata by the uninfected Cetra. If fossils of the Monsters and Ancients/Cetra could be found, it might be possible to recover cells... genetic material suitable for cloning or grafting. }[On Making materia] } }On making materia, we've concluded that it's impossible to make any sort of }'advanced materia' in a reactor. The thrashng that Mako gets makes it }impossible to keep a Cetra intact. } } }[On Mako Energy] } }We have two theories on this now. } }1) A change of state theory }2) A nuclear fission theory } }> I didn't say that lifestream is gaseous at room temperture. I said }> that at room temperature it's liquid, like water. In a gaseous state, }> it's at least hundreds of degrees Farenheit, maybe thousands, just like }> steam. Else why can you boil water with it? Those caves were hot when }> the gas escaped into them, then it cooled into liquid, and gradually cooled }> more to solid. } }But that would mean that Shinra needs to HEAT up the Lifestream, and use THAT }to heat up water tanks. Now, why wouldn't Shinra directly heat up the water }tanks? It would use less energy (since none of it is lost in the process of }transporting Mako). And where would the initial energy used to heat the }Lifestream come from? Not if they drill a pipe far down into the earth, and pump it up still extremely hot (almost magma hot). They pump it through the water tanks as the first step. It boils the water and starts to cools the gas, and the hot water turns the turbines, which makes the base power for the pumping and the processing, but in natural form it's hot enough to power everything else. From a corporate point of view, it's very efficient (you need it anyway to make materia, but since you can make power out of it, too, great). From an ecological one... it's disastrous... because you can't stop the gas leakages. I imagine the hardest thing for them dealing with Mako gas is keeping things _cool_ enough. The waste heat is used to keep part of the mako warm enough to sustain the reactions. I've always thought that what is extracted from the ground *IS* the initial power source. Everything else is a by-product. Profitable by-products, but secondary, nonetheless. What's under the surface? A) Instead of lava, I picture beneath the crust it's liquid lifestream. Below that is gaseous lifestream, heated from the compression, below that, a kind of life Plasma, even hotter. B) If you picture there being lava down there, that works too, just pump liquid lifestream into the lavabed. It'll come up really quick like in the hot gaseous form. So what starts the reaction? First you drill down to the hottest layers you can manage. If the gas is down there (a), you pump it out. If lava is down there (b), you pump lifestream into it, and then extract the gas. It's like geothermal energy, you're either tapping into heated ground water, or pumping water down to heat it. }> That's just for the power requirements. But they also make materia. }> Every materia you can buy in a store was made by Shinra. EVERY one. }> They know that materia exists, and one of their early scientists finds }> a way to make common types of materia. It works so well, they just }> duplicate the machinery without improving or refining it. }> }> (Eco-villains from Captain Planet come to mind.) They probably make more }> money doing that, than they do selling power. (You'll note that all the }> really powerful ones, and ALL the Summons are found naturally formed, and }> not in any stores.) } }True that Shinra makes a lot of money selling materia... therefore, they WILL }treat Mako to create materia. But the question still remains, how does the }energy from the Mako become released? } }> }I would say that Liquid Lifestream (such as what Cloud floats in) would be }> }more radioactive than corrosive. }> }> Not as we know radiation, IMO. More like a bio-affecting energy. A }> lamarkian mutation effect that he was lucky to escape. (Lamakian = instant }> mutation like in comic books: Flash and Spiderman. And Beta Soldiers.) } }Yeah, that would be more proper than 'radiation' as we see it now. ... An analogy. Our bodies use electricity to convey it's bio-chemical messages. Defibulators shock the heart into starting when it's stopped, Shock therapy tries to get the brain working properly again. But an overdose of electricity is so deadly it's used to execute condemned prisoners. Lightning is also a killer. "Life" it's self is an undefinable, mystical energy force. Have it and you live, lose it and you die. (In one set of stories I used, I call it Deltronic energy... or lifeforce itself, if you could detect and scan it... what tricorders pick up, etc.) The Lifestream is highly concentrated life energy... we need it in microdoses to stay alive, but too much can kill you, or expose you to partial memories/knowledge or monsters conveyed within the 'Stream. Did you know that you can die from an overdose of WATER? Or salt? Or Iron? All these things we need, but too much is harmful. }> }D) Atomic Fission of Mako }> } }> }Lifestream is likely a molecular crystal. Let us believe that, }> }when something is added to a large pool of Mako, reactions can occur to }> }make the Lifetsream thicker. This would involve the bonding of }> }molecules within the lifestream (and this would therefore release }> }energy). However, this is not the optimum way to use Mako. }> } }> }When this thicker, more radioactive version of Mako is bombarded }> }by atomic particles, the molecules of Mako break apart. The large chain }> }of Lifestream atoms breaks into four separate pieces: }> }1) Another atomic particle }> }2) A molecule with weak intermolecular bonds that tends to form a gas(perha }> }carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc. if we believe that Lifestream consist }> }of carbon and oxygen; that would explain the dark emission) }> }3) A molecule with stronger intermolecular bonds that tends to solidify (th }> }is the raw material for materia, I'll explain this more later) }> }4) The remainder of the reaction; likely solid waste. }> } }> }This splitting of molecules causes a break in the nuclear binding energy an }> }therefore, the mass is converted into energy a la E = m(c^2). This intense }> }energy can be used to boil water to turn turbines. Because there is anothe }> }atomic particle, the reaction keeps repeating, effectively letting off a }> }gaseous substance and leaving }> }a useless solid, plus some materia. }> } }> }The materia that is formed in reactors is of poor quality and }> }has usually has only generic knowledge (something comparable to writing }> }or talking in today's time). Shinra doesn't need this much 'garbage' ("You }> }find junky materia from junky reactors") and therefore, they }> }usually leave it alone until they need to clean it. }> }> The huge materia can be reprocessed waste stuff. But I think that all }> store materia comes from Mako Reactors. The common stuff from the Gold }> Saucer, also. But the harder to get stuff, like in the battle squares, }> or the Chocobo racing may be natural materia. } }Very true. Note that there are 'special kinds' of huge materia... }SPECIFICALLY magic, or SPECIFICALLY summon. Also note that Huge Materia on }its own is entirely useless; they need mastered materia to activate. I would }think that the Huge Materia is basically a huge storage for knowledge. We }'feed' it materia, and it forms something in return with all our 'fed' }knowledge. } }> This is kinda fun. } }We still haven't agreed on HOW Mako Power works. I'll list what we have }agreed on. } }1) How Ancients are diffused into the Lifestream, as compared to everyone else }2) Summons are the 'most complete' Cetra formed into materia }3) The Summoned Monsters are formed as a result of Jenova }4) No one can create Summons or advanced materia manually. }5) Something with Mako Reactors (or the treatment of Mako) can form simple }materia. } }I'm thinking that we could go by: } }MAKO ENERGY works by the Nuclear Fission method. The waste byproducts are the }'materia' but this stuff directly from the reactor is useless. } }To form materia, Shinra must run the waste products of Mako Fission through }processors. They treat it with some sort of chemical, which separates the }materia into colour types. This often lets off a dangerous emission... }something that's comparable to CO mixed with water and CO-2. This stuff is }the black smoke you see above Detroi... I mean, Midgar. } }Shinra then runs these 'separate colors' further, through another processor, }shaping the materia into cute little balls (and isolating specific bits of }knowledge). This process usually lets off energy and }this energy collected from the 'Materia shaping process' is usually }enough to make the process of forming materia self-sufficient, therefore }making it very profitable. } }The death of plant life around a Mako reactor results from the dumping of }solid waste, the air pollution, and the fact that Lifestream is being SUCKED }away and cannot nurse the soil. } }Any comments, questions, suggestions about this? } }-- }/-|rcana I still like the simple change of state theory. If it takes fission to make materia, how do you account for natural materia? Eileen Stone, #2 The MultiVersal Dreams BBS, kmcclure a goldrush.com ----------=========================+++++=========================---------- .. This note comes from: The MultiVersal Dreams BBS @ (209) 754-5851 .. -----======= WWIV 4.24a via the PPP Project Software =======----- -----===== Node a 172.FILEnet =====----- -----===+===-----